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Transcript
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SPEAKER 1
Welcome, everybody. This is Professor Jay Bhattacharya, and this is the Illusion of Consensus podcast. I'm here with my good friend, Dr. Kulvinder Kargil. Thank you, Kulvinder, for joining me for this podcast.
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SPEAKER 2
Thank you so much for having me, Jay.
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SPEAKER 1
So I'm absolutely delighted to have you because I've been watching you advocate for years now for sane policy in Canada, a place where it's just been heartbreaking to watch how schools closed, the lockdowns happened, businesses closed. The focus of so much of Canadian medical attention was on COVID prevention issues.

URGENT Episode 37: Dr. Kulvinder Kaur Gives Her FIRST EVER Interview On Being Persecuted For Anti-Lockdown Advocacy

Smeared Covid dissident Dr. Kulvinder Kaur's first ever interview. Exclusively on The Illusion of Consensus.

Hi everyone,

Dr. Kulvinder Kaur Gill, a specialist physician in Ontario, faced tremendous backlash for advocating against lockdowns and speaking out about the broader health impacts of COVID-19 policies. She was labeled as an anti-vaxxer and faced multiple complaints to her professional regulator. Despite her strong scientific background and advocacy for evidence-based medicine, she was targeted by powerful entities in the Canadian media and medical communities.

Dr. Gill filed a defamation lawsuit to clear her name. The court procedural/motion decision and the cost order were both appealed, ultimately leading to a costs order of nearly $300K ordered in late February 2024 with just weeks to pay. She is now facing financial hardship and may have to declare bankruptcy.

In our 35 minute special podcast episode, we discuss all of this.


Please donate to Kulvinder’s legal fund to help support her:

https://www.givesendgo.com/kulvinder

Follow her on X:

https://twitter.com/dockaurG


Takeaways

  • Dr. Kulvinder Kaur Gill faced backlash and persecution for advocating against lockdowns and speaking out about the broader health impacts of COVID-19 policies.

  • She was labeled as an anti-vaxxer and faced multiple complaints to her professional regulator, despite her strong scientific background and advocacy for evidence-based medicine.

  • Powerful entities in the Canadian media and medical communities targeted Dr. Gill, leading to a defamation lawsuit. However, the court ruled against her and ordered her to pay $1.2 million in costs.

  • Dr. Gill is now facing financial hardship and may have to declare bankruptcy.



Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Background

02:17Advocacy for Health and Concerns for Marginalized Communities

03:14 Backlash and Labeling as an Anti-Vaxxer

06:32 Advocacy Against Lockdowns and Focus on Immunity

11:42 Persecution and Attacks on Reputation

28:49 Court Ruling and Financial Burden

32:01 Implications and Give Send Go Campaign

34:22 Recognition and Gratitude

The Illusion of Consensus is a citizen-supported podcast. To receive exclusive new interviews, consider becoming a paid member:

Join us for our fourth live Q+A tomorrow:

Live Q+A This Saturday: 10AM PT / 1PM ET

·
March 13, 2024

Hi everyone, We are excited to announce we will be doing our fourth live Q+A this Saturday on the livestreaming Callin platform. It will span between 60 to 90 minutes and we will be taking as many questions from you — loyal supporters of the show — as possible.

Discussion about this video

User's avatar
Jolene's avatar

If she happens to read the comments here, I just want her to know that she is seen. She conducted herself with absolute integrity and I’m so grateful to her for standing tall. Don’t let the bastards get you down, Doc. The truth is the only way.

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Hudson E Baldwin lll's avatar

Truth? Just because you’re no longer in school doesn’t mean you aren’t LD.

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Edward Leyton's avatar

As a physician who prescribed ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine throughout the pandemic, I can attest to the voracious appetite of the College’s condemnation and vilification of anybody who veers away from the health public agency recommendations. But this kind of abuse of power by the regulatory colleges has been going on for decades, if not centuries in Canada. It has just been made more obvious by the pandemic. One can only attribute this movement away from science and towards ideology as an extraordinary abuse power with heavy influence from the pharmaceutical companies that literally control politicians, scientists, and regulatory colleges, as well as an attitude of self-aggrandizement and hubris, together with an inherent and embedded tendency of the CPSO to bully and harass. This is supported by the law unfortunately. The Regulated Health Practitioners Act in Ontario and many other provinces is an invitation for regulatory boards to abuse their power, vested in them by the Act, partly because of the complete absence of accountability and oversight within the act. My heart goes out to Doctor Gill. She is one of dozens of physicians who have been censored and censured during the pandemic because their views are different. It’s a disgrace to the medical profession and democracy that regulatory colleges have so much power and lack of accountability. Edward Leyton MD

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Vivien C Buckley's avatar

In my humble opinion, I believe big pharma funds all health agencies worldwide. Of course that comes at a cost. Pharma is too much power, wealth and influence. It’s much easier to allow pharma to pay some bills but at a loss of autonomy.

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Vivien C Buckley's avatar

There is censorship going on in other countries too. Do you think Canada is particularly bad? If so, I wonder if there’s anything we the people can do to change it. Writing a letter to my MP isn’t going to cut it.

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Edward Leyton's avatar

Yes I think Canada is particularly bad BEcause of the RHPA. You can try writing to the CPSO Registrar Dr. Nancy Whitmore; although I wouldn’t expect a reply. Maybe if you ask a specific question she might answer. Here is what I said at my recent ‘caution’ meeting, regarding my ‘non-cooperation’ with their investigation!. Feel free to use any of the ideas from there.

“ In the early days of the pandemic – the Spring of 2020 - I reinstated my license with the College of Physicians and Surgeons of Ontario in order to help with the incipient pandemic of COVID 19. The CPSO welcomed me, and in fact gave me a free license for the year. My intention was to use my considerable psychotherapy skills to help with the so prevalent stress and fear associated with the ongoing pandemic. For the first year I used those skills, effectively in my opinion, to help both professionals (medical and otherwise), as well as general patients to cope with pandemic related anxiety.

In the Spring of 2021 it became clear to me, and many in the profession, that early treatment and prevention of COVID 19 was lacking. It appeared, and was later confirmed, that the vaccines were not preventing transmission of the illness or providing lasting immunity. Ivermectin came to my attention. I and many other colleagues carefully researched this treatment and found it to be an acceptable, legal, modality for effective early treatment and prevention of the virus.

At our clinic we proceeded to use this approach, amongst others, with enormous success. To my dismay, but not surprise perhaps, while investigating another physician in Toronto, the CPSO presumably came across my name as a member of the Canadian COVID Telehealth Clinic. Seventh months after that you launched a Section 75 investigation into my practice – in which you rather inadvisedly assumed you could investigate my whole practice, and not just your concerns about my prescriptions of ivermectin/hydroxychloroquine as part of your investigation . As my lawyer pointed out at the time you provided no reasonable and probable grounds, as there were no complaints. I had practiced for 40 years without a blemish.Given the CPSO demands I carefully considered my fiduciary responsibility to my patients, to keep their records safe from prying eyes, by initially refusing to provide the records you had asked for, and then after some consideration to provide only records with all identifying features removed thus protecting patient privacy and confidentiality. The College refused to accept this response and launched a second investigation for non-cooperation - for which you are cautioning me today..There is no logic to this. In the first place the initial investigation is invalid because at the very least the guidance given by the College with regard to ivermectin was just that – guidance through the guidelines on its website. Nowhere is it a recognizable standard of practice to prohibit the use of Ivermectin for Covid 19 treatment. Health Canada only deems it ‘not recommended’. It seems strangely illogical that physicians are able to prescribe prazosin for nightmares, gabapentin for pain, and Ozempic for weight loss when none of these is authorized by Health Canada for those conditions, and yet you do not take away physician licenses for using them because they are ‘off-label’. Every physician in this country has the right, and indeed the professional obligation, to consider and prescribe off label treatments. Why should ivermectin or hydroxychloroquine be any different one might ask? It certainly is not because of harm. Ivermectin has been acknowledged as one of the safest medications available by both the CDC and the WHO. It has been in use without harm for decades.

Also illogical is the requirement by the College to provide patient names for their investigation. No reasonable explanation has been given to me for that request. So I provided the disidentified records as a reasonable compromise. I also cooperated with an inspection by a Family Physician who had never treated COVID with Ivermectin. Her conclusions were so fraught with biases and illogical conclusions (i.e. no demonstrable harm to patients) that her report was actually easily refutable. No opportunity was given for me to do this however.

It is my understanding that the College has either censured or actually removed the licenses of at least a dozen physicians over the course of the pandemic, leaving literally thousands of patients without a physician at a time when the country most needs them. These are physicians who are thoughtful, considerate, and careful in their treatments of patients, but whose careers have been cut short by the arrogant and bullheaded nature of College investigations which are clearly based on the premise of "guilty until proven innocent", a premise which is abhorrent in our free and democratic society.

You have cautioned me, but I say to you that perhaps the caution needs to be on the other foot. Perhaps it is the CPSO that needs to be cautioned. Although the CPSO may have the power through the RHPA to do many of the things that it does in regards to investigations, being legal does not make it right, honorable, or ethical. In fact the behavior of the CPSO is so egregious and dishonorable – to use your own terms – that it needs to take a serious look at its approach. The pandemic has really highlighted the hubris of College attitude. It's ironic to me that one of the reasons that the present Registrar, Dr. Nancy Whitmore, was hired was for her so-called "Right Touch Regulation". Originating in the United Kingdom this groundbreaking philosophy provides context and perspective for a new approach to a governing body’s regulation of its membership. It was created in response to worldwide over-regulation by governing body’s that saw investigation and punishment mount to intolerable levels. It has been adopted by many professional bodies worldwide, but not by the CPSO apparently, despite being touted by Dr. Whitmore.

So I caution the CPSO to change its attitude. Consider following the principles of Right Touch Regulation in spirit and actuality. Stop hounding ethical-practising physicians and cutting their careers short. That's a disgrace, and it has to stop.”

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KarlM Alias's avatar

Not nearly to the same extent. At least, where I live there have been no doctors that lost their license that I have heard of, and there are a couple of physicians talking publicly (5 mil population). In fact, there is a law that makes it an offence for a person to be punished in any way for talking out while working for the govt. There is also a law making it illegal to refuse cash, though no doubt that will come under fire. They also hardly mention the jabs anymore, certainly no push, and it has not been possible to jab kids for years (it went on for a few months).

Not sayin' we won't end in the same place if we don't rise up, and quick.

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Edward Leyton's avatar

where is that?

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Graeme Ingram's avatar

Write to them and say they have been weighed in the scales and found to be deficient.

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Hudson E Baldwin lll's avatar

Suppressing false information concerning public health sure as fuck isn’t censorship.

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Joeb's avatar

Suppression via debate vs edict is the time-honored tradition, a most palatable and satisfying method for quashing charlatans. It lays naked the false and exonerates the righteous, thereby obviating the need to curse and slander.

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Hudson E Baldwin lll's avatar

Your pseudo-intellectualism is showing.

I stand by my statement. Either directly address my replies, or don’t bother.

BTW Your reply is a magnificent self own! World class. LOL

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Gary's avatar

My PCP refused to prescribe Ivermectin to me despite several requests and my providing him with Alt Media facts. He is a teaching Physician as well and I have chosen to remain his patient so that I can continue to respectfully provide him the truth not allowed by Bid Pharma and their bought and paid for Corporate Media and the stories of brave doctors like Dr. Gill.

This is how a peasant like me can fight back!

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splash_one_lizard's avatar

Donated 100. God bless this woman, I hope she takes down the corrupt canadian media, courts and establishment.

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Edward's avatar

This courageous lady gets a seat at the table of the anti-covid rightous! Abide!

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Al's avatar

Very much enjoying this podcast series Jay - this was a really hard story to watch. In New Zealand most academics or medical professionals didn't publicly disagree (privately was far different) with the government's response - but 1 epidemiologist at the University of Auckland, Simon Thornley, did forming his version of the GBD over here called Plan B as an alternative to lockdowns etc. There were a couple of brutal MSM takedowns of him and then he mostly disappeared from view and I've always wondered what happened, could you invite him to do a podcast?

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Al's avatar

I wanted to add: In 2021 the NZ Skeptics awarded Thornley their ‘bent spoon’ award for what they called his lack of critical thinking, along with having the gall to oppose lockdowns and sign the GBD. I've detailed some of this in a post on the analysis behind the decision to pursue the elimination strategy etc in NZ: https://nzcovidresponse.substack.com/p/the-lack-of-analysis-on-lockdown

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Vivien C Buckley's avatar

Well yet another doctor has been hauled up in front of the CPSO board for failing to follow the rules. Dr. Miklos Matyas, head and neck surgeon in Ottawa. He appealed to the Health Professions Appeal and Review Board but lost there too. He wants to know who authored the official narrative and says that “promoting censorship of dissenting expert clinicians in a rapidly evolving public health crisis is not in the public’s interest.” What is laughable is he has to enrol in a remedial ethics course. The censorship about anything covid isn’t just happening here in Canada, it’s happening all over the world. Doctors, scientists and judges are all afraid to speak up. This is insane. I want to know who or what is creating this smearing of doctor’s reputations if they speak out against the narrative. Who is directing this show????

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Denis's avatar

W.H.O. is directing this show. lol

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Edward Leyton's avatar

People within the CPSO who enjoy the power of controlling others and of course politicians who direct the CPSO input

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Vivien C Buckley's avatar

You made me laugh.

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Edward Leyton's avatar

and the Public health Agency of Canada as well as ‘Health’ Canada.

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Denis's avatar

Health Canada is an oxymoron.

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Graeme Ingram's avatar

Who is directing this show? https://www.jw.org/finder?wtlocale=E&docid=2014327&srcid=share

Ps I am not one of the Witnesses for Jehovah. but I do think there has been a great advantage in learning what they have been declaring and teaching for many decades. to those with willing hearts and open minds that have paid attention.

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marlon1492's avatar

Jay, thanks for having Dr Kaur on. As you said in your interview, this is outrageous.

Also, thanks for putting the link in for her GoFundMe. I donated!

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Luc Lelievre's avatar

Is it possible for her to appeal?

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Bill Rice, Jr.'s avatar

Rav, I just read a story you wrote a year ago where you document all the rejections you got from editors who used to publish your freelance journalism.

I thought you might be interested in my identical experience:

https://www.uncoverdc.com/2020/07/13/covid-19-is-a-real-search-for-the-truth-now-taboo/

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Nancy Fahey's avatar

A must read!!!! Like I said….‘do they think we are idiots’?

I too heard of people getting ‘real’ sick in December here in Tucson…

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Rob Kay's avatar

One of the bravest doctors in Canada is fighting for the poor, and for the truth: she deserves our support with her legal costs as she is being taken to the cleaners by the Canadian Establishment.

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John Stoddart's avatar

An excellent example of a failing justice system in Canada.

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Penny H's avatar

Dr. Gill has unbelievable courage, ethics, and a solid moral compass. I started following her on Twitter during the planned demic and have tremendous respect for her. Most Canadian doctors chose to remain silent and forgot they took an oath to do no harm. The Canada I grew up in no longer exists.

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Polly Styrene's avatar

So much happened that flew in the face of logic almost right from the beginning. The situation was exploited to benefit various agendas not in the public’s interest. Canada’s system is corrupted, and the rot comes from the top.

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Edward's avatar

This puts me in High Rage!

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Johnny Dollar's avatar

Been following Dr. Gill throughout. She's indeed a hero. Her Tweets were always rooted in facts and evidence.

Canada's 'media' and judicial system are a complete farce. It's been quite shocking to learn my country is a complete corrupted fraud. There have been NO legal victories in the higher courts. The lower courts seem to be willing to actually read the evidence but as it goes to higher levels, it hits a massive authoritarian wall. Indeed, the judges seem to be ruling by what they read in the 'news'.

Canada is not trending in the right direction at all. But we must keep fighting. We need to somehow break through 'judicial notice'. Daunting given that the majority of judges are basically left-wing and accepted the government's wholly questionable COVID response not rooted in scientific or rational fact.

Would have been nice to know just who these 'powerful forces' were behind outing her.

Good luck to Dr. Gill. She will be vindicated in the end but the price will be high.

Canada. Hang you head in shame.

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Daniel's avatar

Reminds me of the Dr. Trozzi case with the CPSO

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KarlM Alias's avatar

Also, Dr. Hoffe.

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James Bryson's avatar

God bless you both.

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Wayne Brsdshaw's avatar

It is great to see this young doctor standing up for the truth matter the cost. In NZ we had our then prime minister Jacinda Ardern and head of public health Dr Ashley Bloomfield lead the country down the track based on no evidence at all, while it was available on the literature.

Thousands died and thousands lost their jobs and for their efforts they were knighted. Ardern must have been having second thoughts because one of her last posts was one by Dr Peter McCollough apposing the vaccine. So seeing this young Dr standing up for right is great to see and encouraged us all as we move forward.

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garret seinen's avatar

Thank you, Illusion of Consensus for being the first off the mark.

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SimonB's avatar

Dr. Kulvinder Kaur's story sounds like great material for a classic film about a person fighting for the underdogs and being crushed by the powerful. I think somebody needs to make a film about it to expose the seemingly corrupt abuse of power in the press, science, legal and regulatory systems against somebody standing up for what is obviously the right thing to do.

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Mark White's avatar

That's utterly harrowing. What on earth happened to Canada? God bless you Dr Gill.

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Andrew Heard's avatar

I wish I could help in some way. The way Canada acted against people like me and this person is just terrible. More has to be done.

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Denis's avatar

What everyone must understand is that we, the citizens, are under attack socially, politically, economically, legally, spiritually and medically by a most nefarious band of sub-human criminals whose central goal is basically to enslave and completely control us. Canada has been infiltrated by treasonous stooges who act on WHO, WEF and UN directives. Justin Trudeau is only one of many sell-outs whose crimes and treason go unpunished. And if you think things are bad now wait until Canada signs on to give the WHO complete control over our medical systems in May this year no matter what any of our noble and courageous health professionals like Kulvinder think. This is the harsh reality we face. And that's just the medical part. Canada is being conquered from within by a bunch of traitors in high positions.

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Unapologetically Me's avatar

At the beginning if that podcast, Dr. Gill stated she was being labeled an "anti-vaxxer" when the truth of the matter is that she has probably injected thousands of doses of childhood vaccines into the arms of kids, in her practice. (And probably adult vaccines as well.)

It's my hope that during the past 4 years, in doing her own due diligence as a physician, she has changed her mind about vaccines in general... The data is out there.

Perhaps she's now encouraging her patients (mostly their parents) to do some serious homework and afterwards, if they still want to inject their kids and themselves with these toxic, harmful products, then it's truly by "informed consent".

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Bradley Lewis's avatar

Hopefully she'll get through this with financial assistance and be able to open a private organization in order to continue in her profession because the present system is obviously corrupted beyond recovery and been turned into a system to create sickness and dependency and justify their killing as well. It's finished, and it appears what used to be Canada is finished as well as they are the leading example among western nations of the systemic takeover of "our" governments and the destruction of culture and political tradition. Only parallel systems are viable.

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Laurent's avatar

If the Sikh faith means seeker of truth then you have a case under the Ontario Human Rghts Tribunal. CPSO and their gang are persecuting you on the basis of religion which is a protected right in Ontario.

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Taz's avatar

What a courageous seeker of truth, and truth teller. How she was, and is, treated is horrendous!!

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Kathleen Lowrey's avatar

Canada will look back on this era with such heartache. How could it have so lost its way and hurt so many upstanding citizens?

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s r's avatar

The only Danger this FINE Dr. is to stop the corrupted globalist agenda to steal individuals rights! I love ❤️ this Dr.! Fantastic!!

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Mary-Anne Sillamaa's avatar

Thank you for the link to Dr. Kaur's GiveSendGo. I contributed.

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Carrie C's avatar

Donated; if I was wealthy would have been much more. Best of luck, you are an inspiration!

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Emily Jackson's avatar

Donations in USD definitely go further here in Canada, but in the interest of the full truth, the exchange rate is closer to $1.36CAD for each USD.

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0:15
SPEAKER 1
So I'm absolutely delighted to have you because I've been watching you advocate for years now for sane policy in Canada, a place where it's just been heartbreaking to watch how schools closed, the lockdowns happened, businesses closed. The focus of so much of Canadian medical attention was on COVID prevention issues.