Note to readers: this is a must-watch conversation. Don’t miss it! Hi everyone, In this conversation, Professor Jay Bhattacharya and Mattias Desmet discuss the psychology of totalitarianism and the Illusion of Consensus. They explore the corruption of science, the modern mechanistic worldview, and the alienation of people from each other. They also delve into the role of measurement and measurability, the impact of digital connections, and the phenomenon of scapegoating. The conversation highlights the role of leaders in mass formation and the emergence of totalitarian states. Together, they provide insights into the psychological factors that contribute to the manipulation of public opinion and the erosion of individual freedoms. The conversation explores the themes of mass formation, totalitarianism, awakening, sincere speech, and rejecting the mechanistic worldview. It highlights the impact of lonely masses and the potential for a technocratic totalitarianism. The power of sincere speech is discussed as a means to inhibit mass formation and create genuine connections. The conversation concludes with a discussion on the importance of remaining open-minded and avoiding fanaticism in ideologies.
Wow this is REALLY a GREAT interview (please watch) but for me, it is extremely deep and complex discussion as TRUTH opens our eyes, to a suggestion that vast amounts of science are lies, yet also by corrupt design abbetting to manipulate humans into embracing these falsehoods that are almost like religion or dogma theories.
Worse, our leaders that we so trusted (with an ILLUSION of living under democracy) use it against us, for their evil manipulative purposes.
This is a deep-dive topic that INTELLECTUALS will LOVE .
For others, simply digest it into bite size pieces , as I will have to do.
I think I will have to watch key sections, three times so that this sinks it . I hate any notion that I was hoodwinked all along.
Stupid is as stupid does.
There however is a super surprise buried gold nugget included , in that you might say; " WHY DIDNT II FIGURE THIS OUT YEARS AGO?"
YOU are built of ATOMS that all vibrate and resonate! Ponder that thought.
As per Ekhart Tolle- A NEW EART,H, we are awakening slowly to a new form of conscience.
I ask myself, was I really that naive all along.
Anything that interferes with that natural phenomenon of resonating atoms and molecules and cells of the human, is both HARMFUL and in fact could cause you immense suffering. I had difficulty believing that 60 percent of our planet could be LONELY.
Get out there . Get off your smartphone , and GO RESONATE with your fellow humans. This is JUST ONE buried golden nugget in this podcast.
Great work and kudos for this awesome podcast to TWO BRILLIANT SCIENTIST.
Sending out my love light and good vibes (resonating ) to humanity that we all heal, open our eyes. and awaken to the truth of our miraculous universe full of GOOD VIBES .
I have to respectfully disagree with Professor Desmet.
In his example of the watch, such a device doesn't disconnect us from nature as he alleges. Devising a watch in fact engages us with our fundamental nature of working with and understanding the physical world and building from that. We might as well say that constructing a piano disconnects us from nature and in Desmet's view this might be correct, but the experience of the great piano works and the act of playing such an instrument gives the lie to the theory of mechanical disconnection. Such an act in fact expands human feeling and connectivity.
We are not a disconnected people, and were not prior to Covid. Being with each other, socializing, is part of our nature and this happens despite technology supposedly standing in the way of our grounding in reality and being with others. All of us saw this prior to the world of High Covid, and we see it now that the Covid restrictions have largely passed and we're back to normal.
I think Desmet is seriously misleading and presents us with a false ontology as to the actual nature of humans vis a vis technology and rationality.
Mass formation during Covid was induced by vicious and relentless 24/7 propaganda and censorship. It didn't spontaneously arise from any anxiety present prior to Covid, although of course a certain portion of the population will always be anxious and lonely, and this has likely been true for millennia. The Covid anxiety and fear were deliberately induced-- that was the plan-- and, as many have noticed, this planning was years in the making. A conspiracy. A truly rational and balanced governmental health care establishment would've acted with prudence and care to keep the social fabric intact instead of inducing it to panic, and it would've sought and promoted discoveries relating to early treatment for Covid instead of ruthlessly suppressing them.
This notion of conspiracy contradicts Desmet's theory, in which he very clearly states in chapter 8 of his book that there was no conspiracy during Covid, only the appearance of one. Really? To have the world coordinated in lockstep fashion and heavily pressured to obey, that was no conspiracy? Only a "manipulation," as Desmet says, but a manipulation planned years in advance?
What a thoroughly enjoyable interview. I have noticed throughout my life mass formation. The iconoclast either becomes a target of disdain or admired for having the strength to go against collective thinking. Prime example is the bully in the school yard. Covid has become very divisive, “we’re in this together,” only worked for those that adhered to the narrative. I did at the beginning until I became vaccine injured. At first I felt extremely lonely and isolated from the rest of society. It was an awful feeling compounded by my social and outgoing nature. I have so much disappointment and anger at myself for going along with the narrative and leaving my critical thinking somewhere other than my brain. Fear and the promise of ending the pandemic after two shots propelled me to willingly comply, which was a known big lie. The whole manipulation is evident to me now and can’t believe I didn’t see through it. But, the propaganda was so thorough. Any scientist or doctor who spoke out got demonized in print and t.v. Even before the shots they were priming us about the antivaxxers coming out in droves. I’m angry and sickened by the whole thing. I’m aware now and don’t trust anything I see or read. The misinformation and manipulation about the origins and the continued lauding of the safe and effective vaccines, the obvious corruption has damaged me deeply. I have no trust in our institutions.
Covid the virus a killer👎 how about the hospital protocol using antivirals like remdesivir that actually was and is the actual killer. It was all about sucking you in to have the mRNA jab.
Great podcast!!! I read Dr Jay B’s Great Barrington Declaration early on and watched doctors get cancelled for pushing alternative narratives and treatments. They couldn’t let doctors use (and show success from) Hydroxychloroquine and Ivermectin… because vax couldn’t get EUA approval if there was an effective treatment (Red flag!). They weren’t allowed to have a scientific discussion. (Red flag!) Covid death numbers were inflated (Red flag!) by including deaths “with” covid. I told friends (including a nurse friend who shunned me) that the lockdown would be WORSE than the virus. I only wore a mask on an airplane and for a doctor’s appointment (because you had to) and had one made that said “it’s not about safety; it’s about control”. Otherwise didn’t wear one in the free state of Florida. (Refused to go in stores where it was required; most had signs to wear mask but didn’t enforce it. Avoided eye contact with the mask shamers ) I felt masks were dehumanizing and they didn’t work. I didn’t get vax’d. But worry for my college kid who had to get them. Such a horrible time in our history and we must never allow it to be repeated. Folks you have to push back and refuse to comply next time.
Thank you Desmet. Heard you early on in the plandemic when they attempted to make us less human, trying to convince people that we are without a soul. I am immensely grateful for you. Rational, reasonable and intelligent.
Isn’t it ironic that many think religions are bad because powerful people can use religion to control others, in contrast with science that is supposedly rational, logical and pure? But science is a human construct, not an independent or benevolent God, and is just as useful as religion in being manipulated for good or for ill. (So is artificial intelligence.) Humans are all biased and I believe human-made reasoning devices cannot be completely rational. We are not as enlightened as we imagine and we do not really ‘follow science’ today as Ioannides’ replication crisis reveals and most do not want to recognize.
I do think many people have gotten boxed into their TVs, computers and cell phones which are superficial and limited realities. The world is not 2D and involves using 5 real senses and not just two, and we use intuition as well as logic. When you have to talk and interact with people who don’t think like you do regularly, you cannot help but be changed, whether or not you want to be. When you aren’t challenged, all you get is reinforcement of whatever beliefs you are looking to reinforce. You won’t even know that you are living in a world of false reality; a limited world that is just too comfortable to leave. Stay there too long and you get really angry when you encounter variant thought. It’s one thing to communicate with others of like mind to help refine your thoughts and another thing entirely to think that you know everything about everything and never expose yourself to any thoughts different than your own. And yet another level to censor others’ thoughts.
Absolutely fascinating conversation!!!! I've been listening to Dr. Desmet for a long while now, but he always surprises me with new insights I'd not heard before.
Thank you, Prof. Bhattacharya and especially Prof. Desmet for such a comprehensive explanation of the perils of the Mechanistic Worldview and of Mass Formation.
To respectfully push back against the comments made regarding the incentives faced by Tony Fauci (~minute 50:00), while it can be fully true that Fauci fully believed he acted on the side of good, that explanation of his behavior doesn't cover all plausible scenarios.
I make a distinction on faced incentives regarding those who repeatedly adopt the wrong side of an argument -- who willfully remain in error. Some of them are brainwashed, some are bullied into play-acting, some are bribed, some are black-mailed, and some are just plain evil (they actually want what is wrong for others).
Thank you for this sincere and wise conversation. It's the third time I have listen to it and I keep discovering new insights. For some reason I defenetly found myself with a feeling of resonating with you both and with the way you profoundly listen to one another. This doesn't change the idea that I would rather prefer to have you at my table for dinner. It would be awesome. It is a pleasure to have your company in these troubled times. I wish you all the best.
Well done, esp. the contents markers. For more on the POLITICS of the new totalitarianism, see Eugyppius and I, talking about the uptick of open attacks by the authorities on political speech in Germany, including the strange case, which the Vaclav Havel fans will appreciate, of how the Anti-Green Grocer got persecuted. https://pomocon.substack.com/p/the-anti-green-grocer
Wow this is REALLY a GREAT interview (please watch) but for me, it is extremely deep and complex discussion as TRUTH opens our eyes, to a suggestion that vast amounts of science are lies, yet also by corrupt design abbetting to manipulate humans into embracing these falsehoods that are almost like religion or dogma theories.
Worse, our leaders that we so trusted (with an ILLUSION of living under democracy) use it against us, for their evil manipulative purposes.
This is a deep-dive topic that INTELLECTUALS will LOVE .
For others, simply digest it into bite size pieces , as I will have to do.
I think I will have to watch key sections, three times so that this sinks it . I hate any notion that I was hoodwinked all along.
Stupid is as stupid does.
There however is a super surprise buried gold nugget included , in that you might say; " WHY DIDNT II FIGURE THIS OUT YEARS AGO?"
YOU are built of ATOMS that all vibrate and resonate! Ponder that thought.
As per Ekhart Tolle- A NEW EART,H, we are awakening slowly to a new form of conscience.
I ask myself, was I really that naive all along.
Anything that interferes with that natural phenomenon of resonating atoms and molecules and cells of the human, is both HARMFUL and in fact could cause you immense suffering. I had difficulty believing that 60 percent of our planet could be LONELY.
Get out there . Get off your smartphone , and GO RESONATE with your fellow humans. This is JUST ONE buried golden nugget in this podcast.
Great work and kudos for this awesome podcast to TWO BRILLIANT SCIENTIST.
Sending out my love light and good vibes (resonating ) to humanity that we all heal, open our eyes. and awaken to the truth of our miraculous universe full of GOOD VIBES .
I have to respectfully disagree with Professor Desmet.
In his example of the watch, such a device doesn't disconnect us from nature as he alleges. Devising a watch in fact engages us with our fundamental nature of working with and understanding the physical world and building from that. We might as well say that constructing a piano disconnects us from nature and in Desmet's view this might be correct, but the experience of the great piano works and the act of playing such an instrument gives the lie to the theory of mechanical disconnection. Such an act in fact expands human feeling and connectivity.
We are not a disconnected people, and were not prior to Covid. Being with each other, socializing, is part of our nature and this happens despite technology supposedly standing in the way of our grounding in reality and being with others. All of us saw this prior to the world of High Covid, and we see it now that the Covid restrictions have largely passed and we're back to normal.
I think Desmet is seriously misleading and presents us with a false ontology as to the actual nature of humans vis a vis technology and rationality.
Mass formation during Covid was induced by vicious and relentless 24/7 propaganda and censorship. It didn't spontaneously arise from any anxiety present prior to Covid, although of course a certain portion of the population will always be anxious and lonely, and this has likely been true for millennia. The Covid anxiety and fear were deliberately induced-- that was the plan-- and, as many have noticed, this planning was years in the making. A conspiracy. A truly rational and balanced governmental health care establishment would've acted with prudence and care to keep the social fabric intact instead of inducing it to panic, and it would've sought and promoted discoveries relating to early treatment for Covid instead of ruthlessly suppressing them.
This notion of conspiracy contradicts Desmet's theory, in which he very clearly states in chapter 8 of his book that there was no conspiracy during Covid, only the appearance of one. Really? To have the world coordinated in lockstep fashion and heavily pressured to obey, that was no conspiracy? Only a "manipulation," as Desmet says, but a manipulation planned years in advance?
A rose by any other name is still a rose.
What a thoroughly enjoyable interview. I have noticed throughout my life mass formation. The iconoclast either becomes a target of disdain or admired for having the strength to go against collective thinking. Prime example is the bully in the school yard. Covid has become very divisive, “we’re in this together,” only worked for those that adhered to the narrative. I did at the beginning until I became vaccine injured. At first I felt extremely lonely and isolated from the rest of society. It was an awful feeling compounded by my social and outgoing nature. I have so much disappointment and anger at myself for going along with the narrative and leaving my critical thinking somewhere other than my brain. Fear and the promise of ending the pandemic after two shots propelled me to willingly comply, which was a known big lie. The whole manipulation is evident to me now and can’t believe I didn’t see through it. But, the propaganda was so thorough. Any scientist or doctor who spoke out got demonized in print and t.v. Even before the shots they were priming us about the antivaxxers coming out in droves. I’m angry and sickened by the whole thing. I’m aware now and don’t trust anything I see or read. The misinformation and manipulation about the origins and the continued lauding of the safe and effective vaccines, the obvious corruption has damaged me deeply. I have no trust in our institutions.
Covid the virus a killer👎 how about the hospital protocol using antivirals like remdesivir that actually was and is the actual killer. It was all about sucking you in to have the mRNA jab.
Great podcast!!! I read Dr Jay B’s Great Barrington Declaration early on and watched doctors get cancelled for pushing alternative narratives and treatments. They couldn’t let doctors use (and show success from) Hydroxychloroquine and Ivermectin… because vax couldn’t get EUA approval if there was an effective treatment (Red flag!). They weren’t allowed to have a scientific discussion. (Red flag!) Covid death numbers were inflated (Red flag!) by including deaths “with” covid. I told friends (including a nurse friend who shunned me) that the lockdown would be WORSE than the virus. I only wore a mask on an airplane and for a doctor’s appointment (because you had to) and had one made that said “it’s not about safety; it’s about control”. Otherwise didn’t wear one in the free state of Florida. (Refused to go in stores where it was required; most had signs to wear mask but didn’t enforce it. Avoided eye contact with the mask shamers ) I felt masks were dehumanizing and they didn’t work. I didn’t get vax’d. But worry for my college kid who had to get them. Such a horrible time in our history and we must never allow it to be repeated. Folks you have to push back and refuse to comply next time.
Thank you Desmet. Heard you early on in the plandemic when they attempted to make us less human, trying to convince people that we are without a soul. I am immensely grateful for you. Rational, reasonable and intelligent.
Isn’t it ironic that many think religions are bad because powerful people can use religion to control others, in contrast with science that is supposedly rational, logical and pure? But science is a human construct, not an independent or benevolent God, and is just as useful as religion in being manipulated for good or for ill. (So is artificial intelligence.) Humans are all biased and I believe human-made reasoning devices cannot be completely rational. We are not as enlightened as we imagine and we do not really ‘follow science’ today as Ioannides’ replication crisis reveals and most do not want to recognize.
I do think many people have gotten boxed into their TVs, computers and cell phones which are superficial and limited realities. The world is not 2D and involves using 5 real senses and not just two, and we use intuition as well as logic. When you have to talk and interact with people who don’t think like you do regularly, you cannot help but be changed, whether or not you want to be. When you aren’t challenged, all you get is reinforcement of whatever beliefs you are looking to reinforce. You won’t even know that you are living in a world of false reality; a limited world that is just too comfortable to leave. Stay there too long and you get really angry when you encounter variant thought. It’s one thing to communicate with others of like mind to help refine your thoughts and another thing entirely to think that you know everything about everything and never expose yourself to any thoughts different than your own. And yet another level to censor others’ thoughts.
1:11:00 Come one guys, please admit this: Faith in god is THE biggest mass formation humans have ever seen.
55:00 The mass formation is not over. Masks are still mandatory in most health facilities, shots are still mandatory at many public institutions.
This is a must read on Desmet by a Dr. Breggin. I had the same thoughts whne readiing Desmet's book:
https://breggin.com/article-detail/post_detail/Mattias-Desmet-Mass-Hypnosis-Expert-or-Trojan-Horse-The-Full-Story
I've read his book 3 times. It's incredibly brilliant
We need to say out loud, “ There are two sides to every story”.
Absolutely fascinating conversation!!!! I've been listening to Dr. Desmet for a long while now, but he always surprises me with new insights I'd not heard before.
Thank you, Prof. Bhattacharya and especially Prof. Desmet for such a comprehensive explanation of the perils of the Mechanistic Worldview and of Mass Formation.
To respectfully push back against the comments made regarding the incentives faced by Tony Fauci (~minute 50:00), while it can be fully true that Fauci fully believed he acted on the side of good, that explanation of his behavior doesn't cover all plausible scenarios.
I make a distinction on faced incentives regarding those who repeatedly adopt the wrong side of an argument -- who willfully remain in error. Some of them are brainwashed, some are bullied into play-acting, some are bribed, some are black-mailed, and some are just plain evil (they actually want what is wrong for others).
Thank you for this sincere and wise conversation. It's the third time I have listen to it and I keep discovering new insights. For some reason I defenetly found myself with a feeling of resonating with you both and with the way you profoundly listen to one another. This doesn't change the idea that I would rather prefer to have you at my table for dinner. It would be awesome. It is a pleasure to have your company in these troubled times. I wish you all the best.
Well done, esp. the contents markers. For more on the POLITICS of the new totalitarianism, see Eugyppius and I, talking about the uptick of open attacks by the authorities on political speech in Germany, including the strange case, which the Vaclav Havel fans will appreciate, of how the Anti-Green Grocer got persecuted. https://pomocon.substack.com/p/the-anti-green-grocer