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Jim Reagen's avatar

I have to respectfully disagree with Professor Desmet.

In his example of the watch, such a device doesn't disconnect us from nature as he alleges. Devising a watch in fact engages us with our fundamental nature of working with and understanding the physical world and building from that. We might as well say that constructing a piano disconnects us from nature and in Desmet's view this might be correct, but the experience of the great piano works and the act of playing such an instrument gives the lie to the theory of mechanical disconnection. Such an act in fact expands human feeling and connectivity.

We are not a disconnected people, and were not prior to Covid. Being with each other, socializing, is part of our nature and this happens despite technology supposedly standing in the way of our grounding in reality and being with others. All of us saw this prior to the world of High Covid, and we see it now that the Covid restrictions have largely passed and we're back to normal.

I think Desmet is seriously misleading and presents us with a false ontology as to the actual nature of humans vis a vis technology and rationality.

Mass formation during Covid was induced by vicious and relentless 24/7 propaganda and censorship. It didn't spontaneously arise from any anxiety present prior to Covid, although of course a certain portion of the population will always be anxious and lonely, and this has likely been true for millennia. The Covid anxiety and fear were deliberately induced-- that was the plan-- and, as many have noticed, this planning was years in the making. A conspiracy. A truly rational and balanced governmental health care establishment would've acted with prudence and care to keep the social fabric intact instead of inducing it to panic, and it would've sought and promoted discoveries relating to early treatment for Covid instead of ruthlessly suppressing them.

This notion of conspiracy contradicts Desmet's theory, in which he very clearly states in chapter 8 of his book that there was no conspiracy during Covid, only the appearance of one. Really? To have the world coordinated in lockstep fashion and heavily pressured to obey, that was no conspiracy? Only a "manipulation," as Desmet says, but a manipulation planned years in advance?

A rose by any other name is still a rose.

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Jesse David's avatar

I think it's possible to reconcile the existence of a conspiracy with Desmet's theory. My understanding of Chapter 8 was that mass formation does not require a conspiracy to instantiate, however, this does not mean that a conspiracy cannot exist alongside mass formation. Desmet may personally not believe in a conspiracy but we can still apply his theory while acknowledging a conspiracy exists.

Some of the conspirators may understand mass formation and use it to their advantage.

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Jim Reagen's avatar

I think Desmet clearly makes the case that the steering, the manipulation, during High Covid was impersonal in nature-- he says this on page 131 of his book. Thus, the appearance of conspiracy is like the Sierpinski triangle he introduces: appearing deliberate but proceeding mechanistically. So any "conspiracy" is merely the manifestation of the dominant ideology of the time-- a type of Sierpinski triangle-- which Desmet asserts is the ideology of a mechanistic worldview.

The many objections to Desmet's theory stem from him placing the blame for the mass formation during Covid on the mechanistic tendency of the people themselves, who yearned for a master to lead them and wanted to believe the most fearful messages. This is exactly what his book asserts. This is absurd. What really happened was 24/7 fear porn was deliberately leveled at us in order to, yes, induce a mass formation. People see the mass formation and therefore believe that Desmet must be right, but when he butchers the true cause of that formation-- that it was indeed the result of a deliberate conspiracy likely decades-long in the planning and built on a sophisticated understanding of how to induce mass formation-- then we have to wonder what Desmet's project really is.

Tyrants use fear to control. That's what happened during Covid. Mass formation was generated by the tyrants and to say that it formed spontaneously through our own propensities to mechanistic thinking is to miss what would've happened if the authorities had counseled us to stay calm and carry on, if 24/7 fear porn hadn't been promoted by the government and the media, and if early treatment for Covid hadn't been viciously and ruthlessly suppressed (by lockstep government and medical authorities.) Then we would've carried on calmly and taken some cares, but the mass hysteria wouldn't have arisen and neither would the Covid police state-- probably the real goal of the operation--have taken hold. Instead, we lost our minds, yes, because they wanted us to lose our minds and conspired to make this happen. They did this for an obvious reason: as Klaus Schwab makes clear in his book ("Covid 19: the Great Reset") they were hoping that Covid would inspire a Great Reset and things would never get back to normal and we'd be party to a permanent medical police state.

We were deliberately manipulated. It was a conspiracy of the highest order, and Desmet's program is to pretend this never happened.

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Magdalena Algarin's avatar

Right on! Thank you!

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Timea Biro's avatar

I agree with you. Mass hysteria was stirred up by the media spewing propaganda 24/7 - remember the number of cases tracked at the bottom of the screen? Health authorities, scientist, doctors and politicians in a coordinated fashion bombarded us about the success story of the "safe and effective" vaccine, how it stops the spread and how you would never get covid, that the unvaccinated people are the one that spread the virus, die and of course, responsible for all of the deaths, including your grandma's. None of it was true as we, dissidents knew. And even when finally every bit of lie got proven to be a lie through gradual revelations that came via freedom of information records, or even by the pharma executive who revealed that there was no testing whether the vaccine prevent the spread of infection, or Fauci revealing that he was actually not in support of the lockdowns and so on. Yet, there has been no recourse, no corrective actions, and no apologies by the government, but rather they doubled down more on the insanity, as of they were right along the way. Now it's a fact that the so called vaccine does not stop the spread of covid, or prevents you getting covid, yet you are still required to get it in order to go to college. Only on this basis, it should not be required to take by anyone! But, no one seems to care, as if this was not important matter.

Finally, I am convinced that the majority of the people (60-70%) were fully aware of the lies and irrationality, but as a way of self preservation decided to keep their mouth closed. People generally understand what mass formation do, finding and eliminating the scapegoats.

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Joe Jarzabek's avatar

Unfortunately I turned off the interview about 10 minutes in . It got too textbook theorizing for me . I wanted constant references to our current reality following the pandemic and how totalitarianism has now arisen everywhere and how to fight it. Not this.

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Jim Reagen's avatar

Fight it by fighting against censorship. Censorship is how totalitarianism arises.

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Magdalena Algarin's avatar

It is certainly a big one....

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greer (tree woman)'s avatar

I hope you might try to listen again... It laid out some groundwork which applies to any situation ...with reference to some covidian stuff... but it went beyond that...

The final discussion about how and what needs to be in place in order that mass formation does not happen again are deeply important.

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tracy's avatar

We've been disconnecting more and more for the last 7000-8000 years since we invented civilisation. Not one of our inventions have improved our lives on life on Earth generally. In fact, we have decimated nearly all other lives on this planet.

Before civilisation was invented by the growing elites, humans lived in groups, ate in groups, groomed in groups, slept in groups, sexed in groups, played in groups, and raised offspring in groups.

Civilisation was the greatest divisive force in history, forcing men and women in one-on-pairings, as if we were crows, ending evolution, ending our connection to nature.

This is our palaeontological history.

People can claim to love modernity and civilisation, that's your prerogative, but let's not confuse this POV with history and evolution.

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Jim Reagen's avatar

I see very many people who seek connections with nature and with each other.

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tracy's avatar

You just put your finger on the problem. People seeking. We're evolved to live as groups, not to be out there "seeking" connections.

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Magdalena Algarin's avatar

thank you-well said.

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