Yes. We allowed "2 weeks" we allowed border closures, we allowed "essential" workers we ran with hysteria and I'm so fed up of morons like Kara Swisher on the Bill Maher show demonstrating how great it would be if she followed her own advice and didn't talk about that of which she has zero understanding.
Yes. We allowed "2 weeks" we allowed border closures, we allowed "essential" workers we ran with hysteria and I'm so fed up of morons like Kara Swisher on the Bill Maher show demonstrating how great it would be if she followed her own advice and didn't talk about that of which she has zero understanding.
Well, boarder closures are actually one of the few things that should be done against an epidemic to prevent it from becoming a pandemic. Otherwise, we should have collectively said “No”, to all the rest.
Japan closed its borders Feb 03. No, I would not have closed the borders in March as it was already too late. Closing borders only works IF done before the disease enters; though the case for closing borders from infection regions would reduce the numbers of people spreading it with the partially closed nation. Closing borders violates no one’s rights unless they close them against their own citizens, which many countries did. No one has the right to enter any foreign land. That is what visas are for, they are the permission required to enter and they can be revoked at any time for any reason.
In the end the viruses get everyone. The preponderance of evidence has always shown that border closures accomplish nothing. This one's not about "rights" but cherry picking wa hat parts of the evidence we like and don't like.
Evidence for masking = evidence for bordure closing.
There is no evidence for masks working against viruses. However, for viruses that are transmitted person to person with no local animal reservoir, preventing potential carriers from entering during times of epidemics has indeed worked. How many of the diseases that have been epidemic in your life time have also spread through countries that barred entry to those who traveling from areas then in an epidemic?
Why is that, if viruses get everyone as you say? One reason is that those coming from regions with an epidemic are not allowed in countries that do not have it.
Covid? Sure, it never was as bad as they said and once it got in the community, little can be done except the three steps I outlined earlier. Most diseases do not require this, sadly they are applying it to everything, real and imagined. Yes, inappropriate for copied but that does not mean it is for all diseases.
Really? How about SARS 1? Ebola? West Nile Virus? MERS? Japanese Encephalitis? The once eradicated diseases in the US are again there once the border was opened to the sick?
I agree that for coronaviruses, none of this works, though IF a new one is truly out there, there is no way for it to travel across the seas unless brought in by an infected human of something humans are carrying with them.
Yes, once a virus enters a community, then there is nothing other than isolating the sick, quarantining those that had contact with the sick and letting everyone else go about their normal lives as scientists and doctors works on ways to deal with it. But, if not allowed into the community, then nine of this is called for. Not allowing people from infected areas into areas not infected can and has prevented spread into closed areas. Not always, for various reasons, including it was already there before it was known; however, preventing possible carriers from entering has long been used to good effect.
No, border closures are also anti science and against all Pandemic Preparedness Plans. In evidence based science you gotta stick with the evidence and the evidence shows closing bordures is stupid.
ZERO mandates
ZERO curtailing of rights
I know some folks who are just antivax for themselves, not everyone. Fuck that shit.
Everyone wants their pet exemption.
No level of lethality warrants ANY obligatory measures.
You are correct, Tracy. What people like Kitsune don't understand is the difference between communicable diseases that can be easily spread person-to-person, like, say, hepatitis, traceable and preventable with barriers and precautions and diseases like respiratory influenza that does not spread person-to-person, isn't traceable and preventable and no barriers and precautions can be taken to slow/stop the spread.
You know how you can track a hepatitis outbreak to a restaurant where an infected cook handled the food. Restaurants are sued by those who become ill. Trackable, traceable, preventable. Catch a cold or flu after visiting the same restaurant, no lawsuit possible - prove that was the source. Impossible.
Deer test positive, big cats, all wildlife, all natural reservoirs of 'covid' we're found everywhere. Foxes, kitsune's too. No humans kissing, hugging, sneezing on deer, big cats, wildlife. It's patently absurd on the face of it. Common sense.
THEN you tap into the actual medical science studies (pre-2020) of pandemic influenza spread. And all of the pandemic influenza plans produced in the world over decades of research, hundreds of billions of dollars spent researching pandemic influenza spread, WHO, CDC, global counterparts all declared shutting borders to control spread was anti-science. And came with dangers to mankind, that flow from border closures.
To wit, pandemic mitigation plans explicitly stated that because border closures do nothing to control spread of airborne respiratory illnesses that become widespread in less than two weeks after first appearance that closing borders is a dangerous political act, an aggression against nation's banned.
The pre-pandemic plans went on to state, "when nations blame other nations for the spread of respiratory disease like influenza, that cannot be controlled by acts of man, that nation's leaders will inevitably blame their people for the spread of respiratory disease like influenza, that cannot be controlled by controlling the acts of their people." Under the "shit rolls downhill" principle leaders will not want to appear weak and so they will blame shift. Becoming totalitarian and tyrannical issuing edicts criminalizing normal life activities in a free and open society.
That which I describe above was expressly warned against in pre-2020 pandemic influenza plans. They knew, had spent hundreds of billions of dollars on decades of global research to know this truth. And arrogant leaders of our time believing themselves masters of the natural, microbiological world blew right through the cautions and barricades. And went, predictably, straight to totalitarianism and tyranny. As predicted would happen with border closures.
Not one place in the world was spared from disease by border closures. Not one.
And only phony PCR tests that detect dinosaur DNA in fossils, not real, live dinosaurs kept up the myth that there was a pandemic after winter flu season 2019-2020 ended. Though the rollout of jabs in winter 2020-2021 sure spread a lot of disease, illness and death that was called Covid variants like Delta. Appearing *after* vaccination globally, never, ever, not one time before. But that's another story.
Border closures don't work. Lockdowns don't work. Masks don't work. Vaccines don't work (protectively, anyways). No act of man stops the spread of pandemic influenza. The foxes, deer, big cats, squirrels, wildlife of the world that tested positive can attest to that. Only arrogant man believes otherwise.
Kitsune is burdened by an inaccurate understanding of infectious disease and the different types of risks and transmission found with them. The Kitsune's and other uneducated but trusting believers in catching the "cooties" from others believe influenza is like hepatitis and can be controlled like hepatitis. Ignoring the fact that one is actionable for damages while the other isn't. Because one is controllable while the other isn't. Sad that an otherwise earnest fighter for freedom against mask mandates is still trapped by the biggest false narrative of all to emerge from 2020 throwing away all previous human knowledge and wisdom on the subject.
It's all solved if we just stop fearing illness. I caught all childhood diseases. My cohort are 100% fine. I feel like younger generations live in complete hysteria regarding contagions,
Yet
Yet !!!!
The younger generations are rife with lifestyle illnesses which are socially contagious!!
And that Kitsune is obsessed with viruses from "other" places
It's all selective hypochondria and honestly it drives me nuts.
But the ones that most drive me nuts are those the idiots who advocate for the "eradication" of diseases.
Tracy you are correct there’s an obsession over germs and illnesses plus people consume huge amounts of chemicals to clean their homes and clothes which has and still is detrimental to overall health plus damaging immune systems.
I have two teenagers who played outside digging in muck all day from the minute they could walk. I’ve trained both to listen and understand their bodies and not to override a temperature as it’s your bodies defence mechanism to fight and aid healing.
I’ve taught them same as I was when I got a cold, wrap up go to bed and sweat it out and you’ll have broken it’s back the next day so recovery will be much quicker.
Your immune system works best when it’s challenged and primed ready to go, there’s billions of us from previous generations that are living proof that there’s no need for so much pharma interventions.
There are diseases that were once eradicated in the US but have since made a resurgence there. The first I learned of this resurgence was during the Obama administration. Mush as we are seeing today, but at a smaller scale, Obama let in large numbers of illegals without vetting them medically. Many were carrying diseases that had been eradicated with in the borders of the US. Part of the eradication process and maintenance is to close the borders to those who cannot prove they are vaccinated against these diseases. It worked until we threw open the southern border and began shipping sick people around the country.
When ships enter a foreign port, they are stopped and inspected, however cursory, by various agencies, including public health before the crew is allowed ashore. Is disease is found to be present, they are not allowed ashore and at least in the old days, had to a chore at the quarantine anchorage for a period of time or depart the harbor.
Countries routinely close borders to those traveling from areas of the world known to have an epidemic. This is a trued and true method of keeping disease out.
While it is a human right to be able to leave one’s country, it is not a right to enter any country. So border closures for noncitizens is not a violation or curtailing of their rights. For citizens returning from anywhere where there is an epidemic, they should go into some sort of quarantine. But it is only because there is a likelihood that they were exposed. Never in human history have we quarantined those who had no possible contact with the sick.
Have you ever traveled abroad? Depending on where you are going, various shots are required to enter and or return to your home country. This predates the redundant vax passport. This is one way we could see that something strange was afoot as there is no reason for a covid vax pass to enter any country as the existing visa system has long takes care of ensuring that those entering were not likely to bring in disease. For my first visit to Japan in the 90s, I was required to get vaccinated for Japanese Encephalitis for it is endemic here and the US does not want it endemic there.
The problem is, with out vaccines and masks, mankind has had success in keeping diseases from spreading into other countries. Quarantine and closed borders were parts of the efforts undertaken that have been successful. Vaccines may have helped. 4 years ago I would have argued that but hey did, not less sure on that aspect. That does not mean I support the covid clot shot at all, as I do not. But still cannot catch a human only borne disease form those who carry it if they are not allowed to enter your country and those returning from areas with it are quarantined.
Then you should know better. You know that there are diseases that are prevalent in certain parts of the world and that efforts have successfully contain them and that when these efforts are thwarted, disease has invaded other countries. You cannot catch something if you are not in contact with those that carry the disease. If the carriers are other humans, then not allowing them into countries that are currently free from the disease definitely has been effective.
I'm against disease eradication. It's a horrible idea. Disease is a population controller in all life forms. It really riles me up how anti biology humans have become.
You say you're anti masker, but now sadly I see you are a purveyor of hysteria too.
New Zealand closed down and successfully kept the virus out, but when they eventually had to re-open, didn't it sweep through everywhere? Although I guess you could argue that by then the virus had mutated to a more innocuous form.
That is one argument and a big one. The usual natural progression of virus mutation is to one that is more easily spread but less deadly. Another is, if not for “testing” would it even be thought that it swept through or would it by then be thought to be the common cold or flu otherwise?
Yes. We allowed "2 weeks" we allowed border closures, we allowed "essential" workers we ran with hysteria and I'm so fed up of morons like Kara Swisher on the Bill Maher show demonstrating how great it would be if she followed her own advice and didn't talk about that of which she has zero understanding.
Well, boarder closures are actually one of the few things that should be done against an epidemic to prevent it from becoming a pandemic. Otherwise, we should have collectively said “No”, to all the rest.
You woulda "shut the borders" in March. It was going around the world since 2019.
The vast majority of Canada's initial cases were Canadians mandated to return to Canada.
You CAN NOT stop viruses.
It's all stupid.
Sweden had less deaths than closed Australia.
The only thing to do against a virus is to get healthy.
Japan closed its borders Feb 03. No, I would not have closed the borders in March as it was already too late. Closing borders only works IF done before the disease enters; though the case for closing borders from infection regions would reduce the numbers of people spreading it with the partially closed nation. Closing borders violates no one’s rights unless they close them against their own citizens, which many countries did. No one has the right to enter any foreign land. That is what visas are for, they are the permission required to enter and they can be revoked at any time for any reason.
In the end the viruses get everyone. The preponderance of evidence has always shown that border closures accomplish nothing. This one's not about "rights" but cherry picking wa hat parts of the evidence we like and don't like.
Evidence for masking = evidence for bordure closing.
There is no evidence for masks working against viruses. However, for viruses that are transmitted person to person with no local animal reservoir, preventing potential carriers from entering during times of epidemics has indeed worked. How many of the diseases that have been epidemic in your life time have also spread through countries that barred entry to those who traveling from areas then in an epidemic?
None.
Why is that, if viruses get everyone as you say? One reason is that those coming from regions with an epidemic are not allowed in countries that do not have it.
So what if you catch it? ?????
It's this type of fear that drives hysteria.
Let it go.
Be healthy. Make peace with your finite existence.
We are meant to get sick, we are meant to die.
Hypochondria will shorten your life faster than viruses!
Covid? Sure, it never was as bad as they said and once it got in the community, little can be done except the three steps I outlined earlier. Most diseases do not require this, sadly they are applying it to everything, real and imagined. Yes, inappropriate for copied but that does not mean it is for all diseases.
Really? How about SARS 1? Ebola? West Nile Virus? MERS? Japanese Encephalitis? The once eradicated diseases in the US are again there once the border was opened to the sick?
None are "eradicated". It's simply medically irrelevant. Viruses will travel no matter what.
The definition of "pandemic" no longer has any value. Coronaviruses have a vast animal reservoir.
They are unstoppable.
We need healthier people, not more laws.
I agree that for coronaviruses, none of this works, though IF a new one is truly out there, there is no way for it to travel across the seas unless brought in by an infected human of something humans are carrying with them.
Yes, once a virus enters a community, then there is nothing other than isolating the sick, quarantining those that had contact with the sick and letting everyone else go about their normal lives as scientists and doctors works on ways to deal with it. But, if not allowed into the community, then nine of this is called for. Not allowing people from infected areas into areas not infected can and has prevented spread into closed areas. Not always, for various reasons, including it was already there before it was known; however, preventing possible carriers from entering has long been used to good effect.
Mandatory quarantines should be illegal.
There no stopping this stuff.
You're still hung up on not catching it!
You gotta let go!
No, border closures are also anti science and against all Pandemic Preparedness Plans. In evidence based science you gotta stick with the evidence and the evidence shows closing bordures is stupid.
ZERO mandates
ZERO curtailing of rights
I know some folks who are just antivax for themselves, not everyone. Fuck that shit.
Everyone wants their pet exemption.
No level of lethality warrants ANY obligatory measures.
You are correct, Tracy. What people like Kitsune don't understand is the difference between communicable diseases that can be easily spread person-to-person, like, say, hepatitis, traceable and preventable with barriers and precautions and diseases like respiratory influenza that does not spread person-to-person, isn't traceable and preventable and no barriers and precautions can be taken to slow/stop the spread.
You know how you can track a hepatitis outbreak to a restaurant where an infected cook handled the food. Restaurants are sued by those who become ill. Trackable, traceable, preventable. Catch a cold or flu after visiting the same restaurant, no lawsuit possible - prove that was the source. Impossible.
Deer test positive, big cats, all wildlife, all natural reservoirs of 'covid' we're found everywhere. Foxes, kitsune's too. No humans kissing, hugging, sneezing on deer, big cats, wildlife. It's patently absurd on the face of it. Common sense.
THEN you tap into the actual medical science studies (pre-2020) of pandemic influenza spread. And all of the pandemic influenza plans produced in the world over decades of research, hundreds of billions of dollars spent researching pandemic influenza spread, WHO, CDC, global counterparts all declared shutting borders to control spread was anti-science. And came with dangers to mankind, that flow from border closures.
To wit, pandemic mitigation plans explicitly stated that because border closures do nothing to control spread of airborne respiratory illnesses that become widespread in less than two weeks after first appearance that closing borders is a dangerous political act, an aggression against nation's banned.
The pre-pandemic plans went on to state, "when nations blame other nations for the spread of respiratory disease like influenza, that cannot be controlled by acts of man, that nation's leaders will inevitably blame their people for the spread of respiratory disease like influenza, that cannot be controlled by controlling the acts of their people." Under the "shit rolls downhill" principle leaders will not want to appear weak and so they will blame shift. Becoming totalitarian and tyrannical issuing edicts criminalizing normal life activities in a free and open society.
That which I describe above was expressly warned against in pre-2020 pandemic influenza plans. They knew, had spent hundreds of billions of dollars on decades of global research to know this truth. And arrogant leaders of our time believing themselves masters of the natural, microbiological world blew right through the cautions and barricades. And went, predictably, straight to totalitarianism and tyranny. As predicted would happen with border closures.
Not one place in the world was spared from disease by border closures. Not one.
And only phony PCR tests that detect dinosaur DNA in fossils, not real, live dinosaurs kept up the myth that there was a pandemic after winter flu season 2019-2020 ended. Though the rollout of jabs in winter 2020-2021 sure spread a lot of disease, illness and death that was called Covid variants like Delta. Appearing *after* vaccination globally, never, ever, not one time before. But that's another story.
Border closures don't work. Lockdowns don't work. Masks don't work. Vaccines don't work (protectively, anyways). No act of man stops the spread of pandemic influenza. The foxes, deer, big cats, squirrels, wildlife of the world that tested positive can attest to that. Only arrogant man believes otherwise.
Kitsune is burdened by an inaccurate understanding of infectious disease and the different types of risks and transmission found with them. The Kitsune's and other uneducated but trusting believers in catching the "cooties" from others believe influenza is like hepatitis and can be controlled like hepatitis. Ignoring the fact that one is actionable for damages while the other isn't. Because one is controllable while the other isn't. Sad that an otherwise earnest fighter for freedom against mask mandates is still trapped by the biggest false narrative of all to emerge from 2020 throwing away all previous human knowledge and wisdom on the subject.
It's all solved if we just stop fearing illness. I caught all childhood diseases. My cohort are 100% fine. I feel like younger generations live in complete hysteria regarding contagions,
Yet
Yet !!!!
The younger generations are rife with lifestyle illnesses which are socially contagious!!
And that Kitsune is obsessed with viruses from "other" places
It's all selective hypochondria and honestly it drives me nuts.
But the ones that most drive me nuts are those the idiots who advocate for the "eradication" of diseases.
These people are delusional!
Tracy you are correct there’s an obsession over germs and illnesses plus people consume huge amounts of chemicals to clean their homes and clothes which has and still is detrimental to overall health plus damaging immune systems.
I have two teenagers who played outside digging in muck all day from the minute they could walk. I’ve trained both to listen and understand their bodies and not to override a temperature as it’s your bodies defence mechanism to fight and aid healing.
I’ve taught them same as I was when I got a cold, wrap up go to bed and sweat it out and you’ll have broken it’s back the next day so recovery will be much quicker.
Your immune system works best when it’s challenged and primed ready to go, there’s billions of us from previous generations that are living proof that there’s no need for so much pharma interventions.
There are diseases that were once eradicated in the US but have since made a resurgence there. The first I learned of this resurgence was during the Obama administration. Mush as we are seeing today, but at a smaller scale, Obama let in large numbers of illegals without vetting them medically. Many were carrying diseases that had been eradicated with in the borders of the US. Part of the eradication process and maintenance is to close the borders to those who cannot prove they are vaccinated against these diseases. It worked until we threw open the southern border and began shipping sick people around the country.
When ships enter a foreign port, they are stopped and inspected, however cursory, by various agencies, including public health before the crew is allowed ashore. Is disease is found to be present, they are not allowed ashore and at least in the old days, had to a chore at the quarantine anchorage for a period of time or depart the harbor.
Countries routinely close borders to those traveling from areas of the world known to have an epidemic. This is a trued and true method of keeping disease out.
While it is a human right to be able to leave one’s country, it is not a right to enter any country. So border closures for noncitizens is not a violation or curtailing of their rights. For citizens returning from anywhere where there is an epidemic, they should go into some sort of quarantine. But it is only because there is a likelihood that they were exposed. Never in human history have we quarantined those who had no possible contact with the sick.
I'm against porous borders.
For legal and workers rights reasons.
There's zero medical evidence related to this. Just fear mongering.
Have you ever traveled abroad? Depending on where you are going, various shots are required to enter and or return to your home country. This predates the redundant vax passport. This is one way we could see that something strange was afoot as there is no reason for a covid vax pass to enter any country as the existing visa system has long takes care of ensuring that those entering were not likely to bring in disease. For my first visit to Japan in the 90s, I was required to get vaccinated for Japanese Encephalitis for it is endemic here and the US does not want it endemic there.
The reason the resistance failed so miserably is everyone vouches for their own favourite medical point.
NONE.
That's the answer.
Yes countries have the right to decide who enters. But to decide that on medical reasons is plain nonsense.
Big picture, say no to all of it.
I met anti-Vader's at protests who wanted stronger mask mandates!!!!!!
All hypochondria is a slippery slope.
The problem is, with out vaccines and masks, mankind has had success in keeping diseases from spreading into other countries. Quarantine and closed borders were parts of the efforts undertaken that have been successful. Vaccines may have helped. 4 years ago I would have argued that but hey did, not less sure on that aspect. That does not mean I support the covid clot shot at all, as I do not. But still cannot catch a human only borne disease form those who carry it if they are not allowed to enter your country and those returning from areas with it are quarantined.
I've lived, worked, fucked, in 22 countries. Think that counts as yes!
In the end it just does not matter. It's hypochondria.
Then you should know better. You know that there are diseases that are prevalent in certain parts of the world and that efforts have successfully contain them and that when these efforts are thwarted, disease has invaded other countries. You cannot catch something if you are not in contact with those that carry the disease. If the carriers are other humans, then not allowing them into countries that are currently free from the disease definitely has been effective.
I'm against disease eradication. It's a horrible idea. Disease is a population controller in all life forms. It really riles me up how anti biology humans have become.
You say you're anti masker, but now sadly I see you are a purveyor of hysteria too.
Everyone has their pet hysteria I guess.
And what hysteria do I have?
New Zealand closed down and successfully kept the virus out, but when they eventually had to re-open, didn't it sweep through everywhere? Although I guess you could argue that by then the virus had mutated to a more innocuous form.
That is one argument and a big one. The usual natural progression of virus mutation is to one that is more easily spread but less deadly. Another is, if not for “testing” would it even be thought that it swept through or would it by then be thought to be the common cold or flu otherwise?