Kevin and Jay are heroes in my book. I tired to talk about Jay's ideas to coworkers at the hospital in 2020 but no one seemed to care....mostly kept to myself, kept my D level up high. Then came the shaming by coworkers and MDs at rounds aimed at those not choosing the injection. Held my course, but family and friends' relationships suffered. I felt like Anne Frank hiding in plain sight. Choosing to move on and focus on immunity and healthy lifestyles. Thank you for standing your ground. Both of you have influenced many doubters on both sides.

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What a great interview (apart from the many crackles and it sounded like Kevin was doing exercises or running - he was puffing all the time😆) - So very very refreshing to see and hear the humility in Kevin with telling how he originally thought and where he was in his ideology and outlook, but then, over time, having a big change. Not many people have the courage to expose themselves that much. Wow.

It must have been comforting for him to know you Dr Jay had gone through the "persecution stage" as well, and had come out the other side.

So true that science people need grace towards others studying science who are wanting to get to the truth or to explore and question. And especiallytrue to have grace and compassion towards those who disagree with us, or have a different viewpoint.

In my opinion, the worse thing from covid was the virus of the mind that took over - faaaar more dangerous and deadly than the physical virus itself. The division that came from that - it ripped society, friendships, families, even marriages! apart here in Australia - ALL THAT was by far the worst thing about this whole chapter of history!! Alll because of this continual pressure, coercion, supposed consensus from so many levels of "authority", and like you said - this huge emphasis of: you are good/moral/virtuous if you do this and think this..... but if you don't think "like US" then you're selfish, diseased, scum and a bad person and you should be shamed, shunned, and cut off from good people and good society. So many people lost their ability to reason.

That is very hard to come back from. The breaking of relationships has been devastating.

Thank you Rav and Jay for continuing to unpack many things, and to continue to talk about it. It is SO helpful! It's like taking counselling lessons where you are validated, heard, and where someone wiser is able to explain what really went on to make sense of the trauma, confusion, and types of strange abuse from our governments, world leaders and neighbours.

Keep up the great work!!

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Hmmm, what changed in March, 2020? What possibly changed in March, 2020 that shifted political and health leaders across the world from what all prior pandemic planning had said was how to handle pandemic influenza? Even Spanish Flu-level pandemic influenza? Or any type of infectious disease as Kevin and Jay spoke of? What might have that been that changed?

Past Pandemics Exposed China’s Weaknesses

The Current One Highlights Its Strengths

Foreign Affairs, March 27, 2020


Foreign Affairs is an international affairs publication supported by and intended for the globalist audience, those who believe in one-world governance, varieties found both on the left and right. It is a highly influential publication in those circles. All major political and business leaders, academia, all of them are informed by Foreign Affairs. Globally. It is an official publication of the Council of Foreign Relations.

This happened. The marching orders changed. It was decided that infectious disease would be treated with political science, social science, behavioral science. Instead of medical science, natural science, virology and microbiology. This. This changed. Look no further than all of these powerful interests locked arms and marched as one down a path that no medical science, natural science, knowledge of virology or microbiolgy, pre-pandemic plans ever contemplated. For any type of contagion.

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And that Foreign Affairs article from March, 2020 referenced this book published in China in 2013:

Rural Health Care Delivery

Modern China from the Perspective of Disease Politics

Springer-Verlag Berlin Heidelberg, 2013

('GET' .pdf download)


Disease Politics. That's what Foreign Affairs, the CFR saw the pandemic as an opportunity to advance - their politics. It was *never* about protecting our health. Never.

I encourage all to download and read the book at the link above. It's free. But it's long. In my Substack I list some of the chapters and sections in it that I found the most illuminating that apply to the radical transformation of western liberal democracies into collectivist authoritarian ones. Just like the book describes was done in China under Mao. Disease as an implement of radical political change:


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The CDC's 2007 pandemic guidance with threat level ranking that Jay speaks of in the 44:xx time frame:


Note: This historical document was edited by the CDC sometime in 2021 from its original archived form. They say it was for "clarity." But the most obvious edits are to visual data representations in the graphs about pandemic severity, blanking out the recommendations for the most severe, Spanish Flu level pandemics. That didn't even call for the severity of restrictions we were subjected to.

These .jpg's show the side-by-side comparisons of the visual representations from pre-edit to post-edit.



Why oh why might they have made that edit?:

Viral Visualizations: How Coronavirus Skeptics Use Orthodox Data Practices to Promote Unorthodox Science Online

MIT, January 20, 2021


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Loved listening to this.

I love being able to analyze things and it is wonderful to know that there are still scientists and doctors who have open minds to reality.

So much of what we hear to today is just taken in and spit out...

So I thankful that there are still SO many who are willing to change their opinions as they realize what is truth!

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The process Kevin describes so resonates. Just a few days ago, I connected with an acquaintance frI had dismissed for what I thought were her kooky views, and apologized. She was so delighted to hear, “although I may not be with you 100% on your considered opinions, it was wrong and of me to be so reactionary and hostile.” It was a deviation from my characteristic open-mindedness, general anti-authoritarian attitude, and probably exacerbated by living in an agreement bubble, and mainstream media derangement. The best news out of this past few years is that the condition is curable and can be remediated. The bad news for those who are the information “experts” is that the result of censorship and demonization of wrongthink has the exact opposite result they want. A significant number of us will only get more insulted, obstreperous and hard to handle.

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much talk - nothing said. I see bass here shows continuing failure to understand, acknowledge and articulate the Reality of what happened. The Depraved-heart Murder of Millions

"Depraved-heart murder" on a mass scale is the Reality.

wickedpedia - "In United States law, depraved-heart murder, also known as depraved-indifference murder, is a type of murder where an individual acts with a "depraved indifference" to human life and where such act results in a death, despite that individual not explicitly intending to kill. In a depraved-heart murder, defendants commit an act even though they know their act runs an unusually high risk of causing death or serious bodily harm to a person. If the risk of death or bodily harm is great enough, ignoring it demonstrates a "depraved indifference" to human life and the resulting death is considered to have been committed with malice aforethought.[1][2] In some states, depraved-heart killings constitute second-degree murder,[3] while in others, the act would be charged with "wanton murder",[4][5] varying degrees of manslaughter,[6] or third-degree murder.

If no death results, such an act would generally constitute reckless endangerment (sometimes known as "culpable negligence") and possibly other crimes, such as assault."


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While I love your content, please pay even a part time sound engineer or college student to produce your podcast. The poor sound quality, speakers coming on and off mute, crackling sound, screeching, background noise, and the like make it almost unlistenable.

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