Hi everyone, I’m excited to bring you this conversation with clinical psychologist Dr. Roger McFillin. His content on X and Substack is incredibly thought-provoking and challenges the popular medical consensus on mental health. McFillin challenges the efficacy of antidepressants and stimulants, pointing out that the placebo effect plays a significant role in their perceived effectiveness. He also emphasizes the lack of scientific evidence supporting the chemical imbalance theory of depression and the potential negative consequences of long-term use of psychiatric drugs.
Great topic! I really liked when Dr McFillin spoke about not pathologizing yourself Rav. Most of what you described as problem behaviors in yourself sounded very normal to me as well. Especially at your age. As a woman who stayed home with her kids for the first several years of their lives, I’ve played with Barbies a lot, and if a 20 year old’s mind does not wander after 10 minutes or so I would think that was abnormal. Cut yourself some slack, put your phone down often, and try not to compare yourself to others. You’ll feel better when you realize the last one (which often comes when you’re a bit older than you are, as it did for me). Thanks for all your great work. Take care.
Having listened: thank you for a great discussion.
A few random thoughts for you, Rav, take 'em for whatever they're worth:
1. It's totally normal for you to be ambitious! Maybe for an elderly guy with a decent living and a family he loves, it's time to stop burning the midnight oil and kick back and enjoy time with the grandkids. But for a man in his early 20s, this is the time to work your hardest and dream your biggest! Almost every great leader/artist/thinker did their hardest and best work in their 20s, human civilization was built on the larger-than-life ambitions of young men. It's not only normal, it's necessary! And it's absolutely nothing to be ashamed of. If you're thinking of building a podcast empire instead of enjoying a tea party with your sister, it's not something wrong with you, it's because you're totally normal. Imagine if when you were 6 and dreaming of being a ninja turtle or lego batman or whatever, some adult came up to you and said there was something broken in your head because you weren't spending your afternoons planning out your RRSP contributions. Different seasons of life come with different goals and ambitions, they're different for different people, don't deaden your impulses, make the most of them while they're there!
2. Respectfully, you don't know what attention is. It's not your fault, nobody really does. Like Dr. McFillin says, we simply don't understand the brain and how it works well at all. However, if you would like the most up to date synthesis of the neuroscience and philosophy of attention, please check out Iain McGilchrist's epic work The Matter With Things. Very very briefly, one thing he demonstrates thoroughly is that there are, and have always been - stretching back to the most primitive organisms to ever exist, and up through to you and me - two very distinct *types* of attention. One is detail-oriented, looking at what's right in front of you, while the other is a big picture attentiveness - think of the saying missing the forest for the trees and you start to get the differences. Well, having followed you for some time, you undoubtedly have a *fantastic* attention to the big picture, which in many cases is far more important than the attention to the little things. Picture someone your age, maybe an old classmate of yours, who excels in all the little-detail spheres of attention that are so rewarded in school and other stupid places, who has no trouble sitting for hours and focusing intently on homework -- but who has now been Covid boosted 57 times because he's a complete fool who has no sense of the big picture (of the degree to which, as you'd put it, the 'consensus' is an illusion). Would you really want to trade places with him? Your overarching sense of attention is acute and far advanced and a true gift!
3. Kinda related, but there's no law that says you have to be interested in watching birds and trees. There are birdwatchers out there, and they're super into that, but there are stamp collectors out there too, and car enthusiasts, and a million other avenues different people have of following what interests them. You seem really interested in medical establishment corruption, for instance. A lot of people aren't. Should we consider them mentally ill because they'd rather read a Steven King horror novel than a Dr. Jay supreme court brief? No. People are different and care about different things, don't force yourself to be interested in nature if you're not just because you think it's "normal" to do so. Follow what truly interests you, even if that is sleep studies instead of squirrels...
Forgive all the unsolicited advice, and feel free to ignore it, just my two cents. Thank you again for a fascinating interview!
This is so great that you are illuminating this exceptionally important topic! I watched an interview not long ago with Dr. McFillan (talking with Dr. Josef) and was so impressed by his passion, experience, articulation, and courage to truth-tell. His substack pieces are very well-written, as well. Thank you, Rav! I am so impressed by your depth of wisdom at such a young age!
A number of us diagnosed with "Bipolar 2" got this way from taking an SSRI which triggered an iatrogenic episode of mania. Rather than admit the drug was the problem and simply taking patients off, the psychiatrists claimed the pill only unmasked the disease which was always there and put us on multiple drugs--including more of the same category that caused the episode to begin with. All problems caused by the drugs were blamed on me or my "brain disease." Never the "safe and effective" pill itself. On that stuff for 25 years. It did not clarify my thinking or make me a better person. The doctors and establishment I trusted lied to me.
So many things I wanted to do and never will now thanks to the psychiatric system. Off the drugs--finally--but damaged and old.
I wonder if there will ever be a class action suit against the drug companies for the damage caused by SSRI's. We were led to believe the only way our son would improve from his OCD was anti-depressants. I was SO reluctant to put my 10 yo on those drugs when therapy did not help. The "professionals" insisted it would help him. Now I am sick about it. The relief was temporary and now he believes his brain is permanently damaged from being on them as a child. He suffers sexual side effects and claims he derives no pleasure from living.
Mental health insurance offers limited access to affordable counseling. Private practice can charge up to $450 an hour. They make you "guess" and cold call to find someone who is accepting patients . You have no way to know the quality of the counselor as there is no rating system. In many cases, you are at best seen once every 3 weeks after initial crisis. You are not given intensive follow up care even after hospital admissions. It's a disgrace.
Hi Rav, just a quick head's-up. I love your podcasts but the videos all stick all the time. My internet speed is reasonable and I have two pc's and both experience sticking video and audio. Thanks very much.
I used to be a social worker and now am a holistic nutritionist so much of what Dr. McFillin said made perfect sense to me. I also believe the mental health labels do more harm and place the individual into the role of victim. As a nutritionist I look at mental health labels as just symptoms of underlying root causes and imbalances whether these are from exogenous sources such as abuse or neglect or endogenous such as systemic wide internal imbalances from nutrient or environmental factors which are vast. Additionally people who have who some ADD-like qualities should also look at these as gifts and focus on your skill set. For instance, read up on any famous artist, composer, inventor and so forth- can you imagine if their brains were numbed with drugs instead of being able to use their creative brains? There are people are are more sensitive and Rav if you have not read yet, look up the books on the highly sensitive person and the highly sensitive child. When I bought the child book many years ago and read it, I felt like I was reading a book about me. It may help you to under Your uniqueness, gifts and talents.
I look forward to hearing more about Rav and your mental health journey. Your experience is so similar to my 23 yo son, ADHD and OCD. He was treated by his primary care doc for ADHD and her oversight was bordering on malpractice imo. It took a letter from me describing how his life was spiraling from his addiction to amphetamines (ie Vyvanse) to get her to stop prescribing them. He had to stop cold turkey (he has no idea the reason she stopped prescribing was due to the letter.) That was fun dealing with him withdrawing. He talks so much about wanting to feel "normal." What is "normal?" It's quite a spectrum and everything you said about yourself seemed pretty normal to me. My son has what I would call "irrational" OCD, ie an intense fear of rabies. He's not willing to put in the work to get better, relying on pot and shrooms (self dosing which is dangerous imo) instead. We have begged him to go inpatient to no avail. I could go on and on. I'm not sure where he will end up eventually. We can only hope one day he will seek the proper treatment.
Great topic! I really liked when Dr McFillin spoke about not pathologizing yourself Rav. Most of what you described as problem behaviors in yourself sounded very normal to me as well. Especially at your age. As a woman who stayed home with her kids for the first several years of their lives, I’ve played with Barbies a lot, and if a 20 year old’s mind does not wander after 10 minutes or so I would think that was abnormal. Cut yourself some slack, put your phone down often, and try not to compare yourself to others. You’ll feel better when you realize the last one (which often comes when you’re a bit older than you are, as it did for me). Thanks for all your great work. Take care.
Excited to listen! Thank you for having him on, he’s great! One of the rare voices of sanity in a dangerous profession
Having listened: thank you for a great discussion.
A few random thoughts for you, Rav, take 'em for whatever they're worth:
1. It's totally normal for you to be ambitious! Maybe for an elderly guy with a decent living and a family he loves, it's time to stop burning the midnight oil and kick back and enjoy time with the grandkids. But for a man in his early 20s, this is the time to work your hardest and dream your biggest! Almost every great leader/artist/thinker did their hardest and best work in their 20s, human civilization was built on the larger-than-life ambitions of young men. It's not only normal, it's necessary! And it's absolutely nothing to be ashamed of. If you're thinking of building a podcast empire instead of enjoying a tea party with your sister, it's not something wrong with you, it's because you're totally normal. Imagine if when you were 6 and dreaming of being a ninja turtle or lego batman or whatever, some adult came up to you and said there was something broken in your head because you weren't spending your afternoons planning out your RRSP contributions. Different seasons of life come with different goals and ambitions, they're different for different people, don't deaden your impulses, make the most of them while they're there!
2. Respectfully, you don't know what attention is. It's not your fault, nobody really does. Like Dr. McFillin says, we simply don't understand the brain and how it works well at all. However, if you would like the most up to date synthesis of the neuroscience and philosophy of attention, please check out Iain McGilchrist's epic work The Matter With Things. Very very briefly, one thing he demonstrates thoroughly is that there are, and have always been - stretching back to the most primitive organisms to ever exist, and up through to you and me - two very distinct *types* of attention. One is detail-oriented, looking at what's right in front of you, while the other is a big picture attentiveness - think of the saying missing the forest for the trees and you start to get the differences. Well, having followed you for some time, you undoubtedly have a *fantastic* attention to the big picture, which in many cases is far more important than the attention to the little things. Picture someone your age, maybe an old classmate of yours, who excels in all the little-detail spheres of attention that are so rewarded in school and other stupid places, who has no trouble sitting for hours and focusing intently on homework -- but who has now been Covid boosted 57 times because he's a complete fool who has no sense of the big picture (of the degree to which, as you'd put it, the 'consensus' is an illusion). Would you really want to trade places with him? Your overarching sense of attention is acute and far advanced and a true gift!
3. Kinda related, but there's no law that says you have to be interested in watching birds and trees. There are birdwatchers out there, and they're super into that, but there are stamp collectors out there too, and car enthusiasts, and a million other avenues different people have of following what interests them. You seem really interested in medical establishment corruption, for instance. A lot of people aren't. Should we consider them mentally ill because they'd rather read a Steven King horror novel than a Dr. Jay supreme court brief? No. People are different and care about different things, don't force yourself to be interested in nature if you're not just because you think it's "normal" to do so. Follow what truly interests you, even if that is sleep studies instead of squirrels...
Forgive all the unsolicited advice, and feel free to ignore it, just my two cents. Thank you again for a fascinating interview!
This is so great that you are illuminating this exceptionally important topic! I watched an interview not long ago with Dr. McFillan (talking with Dr. Josef) and was so impressed by his passion, experience, articulation, and courage to truth-tell. His substack pieces are very well-written, as well. Thank you, Rav! I am so impressed by your depth of wisdom at such a young age!
A number of us diagnosed with "Bipolar 2" got this way from taking an SSRI which triggered an iatrogenic episode of mania. Rather than admit the drug was the problem and simply taking patients off, the psychiatrists claimed the pill only unmasked the disease which was always there and put us on multiple drugs--including more of the same category that caused the episode to begin with. All problems caused by the drugs were blamed on me or my "brain disease." Never the "safe and effective" pill itself. On that stuff for 25 years. It did not clarify my thinking or make me a better person. The doctors and establishment I trusted lied to me.
So many things I wanted to do and never will now thanks to the psychiatric system. Off the drugs--finally--but damaged and old.
I wonder if there will ever be a class action suit against the drug companies for the damage caused by SSRI's. We were led to believe the only way our son would improve from his OCD was anti-depressants. I was SO reluctant to put my 10 yo on those drugs when therapy did not help. The "professionals" insisted it would help him. Now I am sick about it. The relief was temporary and now he believes his brain is permanently damaged from being on them as a child. He suffers sexual side effects and claims he derives no pleasure from living.
Wow very enlightening discussion. It is very sad seeing youth introduce themselves by diagnosis first as an identity.
Mental health insurance offers limited access to affordable counseling. Private practice can charge up to $450 an hour. They make you "guess" and cold call to find someone who is accepting patients . You have no way to know the quality of the counselor as there is no rating system. In many cases, you are at best seen once every 3 weeks after initial crisis. You are not given intensive follow up care even after hospital admissions. It's a disgrace.
Hi Rav, just a quick head's-up. I love your podcasts but the videos all stick all the time. My internet speed is reasonable and I have two pc's and both experience sticking video and audio. Thanks very much.
I used to be a social worker and now am a holistic nutritionist so much of what Dr. McFillin said made perfect sense to me. I also believe the mental health labels do more harm and place the individual into the role of victim. As a nutritionist I look at mental health labels as just symptoms of underlying root causes and imbalances whether these are from exogenous sources such as abuse or neglect or endogenous such as systemic wide internal imbalances from nutrient or environmental factors which are vast. Additionally people who have who some ADD-like qualities should also look at these as gifts and focus on your skill set. For instance, read up on any famous artist, composer, inventor and so forth- can you imagine if their brains were numbed with drugs instead of being able to use their creative brains? There are people are are more sensitive and Rav if you have not read yet, look up the books on the highly sensitive person and the highly sensitive child. When I bought the child book many years ago and read it, I felt like I was reading a book about me. It may help you to under Your uniqueness, gifts and talents.
I look forward to hearing more about Rav and your mental health journey. Your experience is so similar to my 23 yo son, ADHD and OCD. He was treated by his primary care doc for ADHD and her oversight was bordering on malpractice imo. It took a letter from me describing how his life was spiraling from his addiction to amphetamines (ie Vyvanse) to get her to stop prescribing them. He had to stop cold turkey (he has no idea the reason she stopped prescribing was due to the letter.) That was fun dealing with him withdrawing. He talks so much about wanting to feel "normal." What is "normal?" It's quite a spectrum and everything you said about yourself seemed pretty normal to me. My son has what I would call "irrational" OCD, ie an intense fear of rabies. He's not willing to put in the work to get better, relying on pot and shrooms (self dosing which is dangerous imo) instead. We have begged him to go inpatient to no avail. I could go on and on. I'm not sure where he will end up eventually. We can only hope one day he will seek the proper treatment.