18 Comments

“You know what's bad? Not going to school.” REALLY?? Just “bad”??? Teens committed suicide, families were destroyed, dreams crushed, for millions!!! To come off so casual, goes to show you still have no idea the shear magnitude of your “oops”!!!?? I’ll never have enough grace to forgive, let alone forget. The lockdowns shuttered our 30 year old business. I’d love to see somebody pay, someday.

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Oct 3, 2023·edited Oct 3, 2023

If we are talking about "incorrect positions", it is INCORRECT to claim that mRNA vaccines save lives in the elderly. In the Pfizer and Moderna gold-standard randomized clinical trials (the only truly unbiased mortality data), the OLDER age groups had EXCESS ALL-CAUSE MORTALITY WITH VACCINATION (compared to placebo), even at the height of the pandemic and at peak vaccine effectiveness. In the two clinical trials combined, among the OLDER age groups, there were 21 deaths in the vaccine groups versus 16 deaths in the placebo groups. A 31% INCREASE in all-cause mortality with the "lifesaving" vaccine, in the OLDER age groups. And please, let's not bring the ridiculous "it's not statistically significant" cop-out just to protect the beautiful mRNA vaccine$; nobody would accept such a ridiculous cop-out if this were about ivermectin (or masks) rather than mRNA vaccine$.

Among the older age group (>65) in the Moderna RCT, there were 9 deaths in the vaccine group versus 6 deaths in the placebo group. https://www.nejm.org/doi/suppl/10.1056/NEJMoa2113017/suppl_file/nejmoa2113017_appendix.pdf - see Table S19 on page 53/54

Among the older age group (>55) in the Pfizer RCT, there were 12 deaths in the vaccine group versus 10 deaths in the placebo group. https://www.fda.gov/media/152256/download - see page 57, BOTTOM of Table 25

And finally, the same age-related trend appears in VAERS as well: over 70% of unexpected post-vaccine deaths with known ages were in people aged >65 (and about 90% with known ages were in people over age 50). https://openvaers.com/covid-data/mortality

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Sad state of affairs when people are afraid to speak up, knowing they should have. This is how our freedoms are taken away...too many not wanting to speak up against the agenda.

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You are forgetting one thing. They pulled vaccines that had very few adverse effects in a trial. With C19 there was a crucial difference, pharma had EUA protection and could not be sued. That is a night and day difference that would impact whether a drug is brought to market or not.

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I can appreciate that someone was able to change their mind over time through the recognition of data. Although sadly most people don't do this. I was extremely skeptical from the beginning and had small amounts of data to consider why I was right. My first was that locally, 8 people had gotten CoVid and all 8 of them apparently survived having CoVid. That's a data point that seems rather important. Yet many people claimed that it wasn't. However, if it was as deadly as they claimed, it was unlikely that all 8 of them would survive.

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REPENTANCE IS VALUABLE IN GOD'S REALM.

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we are up against the WE SAY SO company

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Oct 4, 2023·edited Oct 4, 2023

HELLO!? When are enough people going to wake up to the FACT that when there are this many deaths, you either don't approve the drug or "therapeutic" in the first place, "emergency" or not, or you immediately withdraw it?! They pulled many for much less, or with far fewer deaths. But what are the present madmen and madwomen now doing(?), they are intentionally allowing the cases of adverse events and deaths to continue to rise exponentially because they, also intentionally, refuse to withdraw the "disability-and-death-jabs". They are ghouls! They love and covet the Godforsaken nihilism that is the death cult of (inter/ultra/supra)national (totalitarian) socialism, that has been taking over the U.S. and the entire world, gradually but surely, for many decades now, as it took over "democratic" Germany in the 1920s and '30s. Slaves to dictatorship, most are again willingly marching to their unholy demise, just as I've been saying for almost twenty years that they would succumb to.

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Yay rational uncertainty!!!

Thank you both so much for this great conversation!

Now. . . how to have the multitudes of people who are looking for (unfounded) protection from (irrational) protectors to hear discussions like this???

Offer free/discounted membership to nursing homes? Church members? College's bio/chem/physics departments? *Med* schools?? (Oh, that'd be a no-go).

Anyway, thank you both, thank you for respecting your members enough to not limit your debate to "safe" topics or perspectives (too much), and. . .

Keep up the GREAT work. Will never meet either of you, but really respect you both!

P.S.Joseph/Joe - Thx for the info re false positives re. appendicitis w/ CT scan in absence of fever etc.

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Drs... Thank you for the conversation but it fell short. There's plenty of data showing the vaccines are unsafe. Why cannot you not discuss this?

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Dear Doctors Bhattacharya and Fraiman.... thankyou for your hard work and commitment to science.

Just a small correction to the narrative that Dr Fraiman might assume is true but is actually not - Pfizer and Moderna were not allowed in Indian, Russian and Chinese market due to reasons which are available on a quick research.

The entire world did not get the Pfizer mRNA thankfully. Valneva a french company has produced inactive viral particle vaccine for Covid but we heard nothing about it on the media. India's covaxin which was pitched by Ocugen in the USA was successful in India , but shut down in the US.

The scientific and medical community in the West paused all conversations about their queries or concerns. That's where the illusion of consensus became stronger.

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Oct 4, 2023·edited Oct 4, 2023

What I don't understand is how it can be so blatantly obvious that these pharma corporations are evil with such a clear intent to hurt, maim, kill *IF ONLY* in their willingness to hide any evidence that would prevent their product from being sold (and mandated).

And then we go back to, but they saved humankind with all their other vaccines. What the actual?

Maybe it's time to dig a little deeper. I'd like to see either of you provide a link to the studies regarding safety of childhood vaccinations. RFK Jr says that FAUCI admitted that they didn't exist. Perhaps it's time to give the links to said studies...should be simple. And then -- while I admire both of you for your stands (especially Dr. Bhattacharya) on the Covid vaxx and the massive lie and coverup -- may be it's time for one of you to debate Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. J.D.?

The day that happens I'll look again at childhood vaccinations. But in the absence of that, I regret to inform you that you're still blinded by the propoganda.

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Oct 3, 2023·edited Oct 3, 2023

Thanks, I really enjoyed the conversation and I really like Dr Fraiman. Good head on his shoulders.

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You are forgetting one thing. They pulled vaccines that had very few adverse effects in a trial. With C19 there was a crucial difference, pharma had EUA protection and could not be sued. That is a night and day difference that would impact whether a drug is brought to market or not.

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we are up against the WE SAY SO company

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